Build A Team-Led Sales Engine with Sadie Groom

Transcript

[00:00:00] Sadie: The other thing that we’ve done is we’ve put into the business a real sales engine. We just felt that we needed to do something different. What’s been interesting is our sales engine isn’t full of sales people. We are getting the team to be our sales engine, and are enabling them with different programs to be able to do that.

And then we’ve brought into the business a sales admin support person to be able to oversee all this and make the sales engine work on a daily basis.

[00:00:33] Ben: Sadie Groom. Ben Baldwin. Welcome to Berko and Beyond. 

[00:00:37] Sadie: Thank you very much. 

[00:00:38] Ben: Uh, we’re giggling ’cause, uh- Yeah … we’re doing this again, ’cause there was, uh something went wrong. But we’ll not talk about that. But also we’re giggling ’cause we know each other very well. We do. So we’re gonna have fun.

Uh, I had loads of intros written for you. Didn’t know which one to go with. Uh, businesswoman extraordinaire. Entrepreneur. Um, uh, average golfer.  

[00:01:01] Sadie: Well, maybe below average golfer. We’ll see this afternoon.

[00:01:01] Ben: We’ll find out this afternoon. You can report back. Uh, but Sadie, uh, we’ve known each other for years.

You’ve got a wonderful business, Bubble Agency. Tell us about it, and, uh, tell us about how you got there and, and why. 

[00:01:16] Sadie: And why. Oh, the big why. Um, so how did I get there? I, um, actually, I’ve bizarrely got a degree in theology, so nobody would ever think I would end up owning a PR agency.

[00:01:29] Ben: No one would ever think that.

[00:01:30] Sadie: So there, there’s a big stretch there. Uh, when I graduated, I went to a PR agency, which I absolutely loved, and then I went in-house to expand my knowledge and network, I guess. And I worked in-house, uh, as European PR manager. I got laid off, uh, which was absolutely devastating, um, for me.

Um, but they said that wherever I went to, I could have the contract. So at the time, I went and interviewed with lots of different agencies. 

[00:02:01] Ben: So this was taking the contract for the business from the company you were leaving? 

[00:02:06] Sadie: Yes, absolutely. And it was just one of those things. I was the person that had been there the least amount of time.

They made 10% of their workforce redundant. I was the cheapest person to lay off, so I went. And, you know, it’s not a nice feeling knowing that someone’s discussing you in a different room. But anyway, that’s a, that’s another story. Um, and so I went for my final interview. I remember I was in an office in Hammersmith.

It was a very well-respected agency in the industry that I work in. The guy interviewing me was wearing his breakfast down his shirt. He was really misogynistic. It was just awful. Um, so I walked out of there and I called my parents from a payphone. Uh, there were mobile phones then. Um, this was 1999.

Um, and, uh, and I just said, “Right, I’m doing it myself.” And my dad was like, “Oh, thank God. Me and your mum been saying like for the past six weeks, she just needs to do this on her own.” Um, so I did, and I thought, “Well, this’ll probably last a year. Um, no one’s gonna criticize me if I fail.” Um, I had nothing. I mean, I had a crap car.

I didn’t own a property. Had a… Well, you know, I mean, literally had nothing that anyone could take away from me. 

[00:03:23] Ben: So nothing to lose.

[00:03:24] Sadie: So there was nothing to lose. Um, and yeah. 

[00:03:28] Ben: So was there a burning… It doesn’t sound like there was ever a burning desire to run your own business at that, at that point. Or was there? 

[00:03:33] Sadie: Uh, yeah. Oh, yeah, definitely. I mean, my, my dad had gone from being a lorry driver to owning two businesses, and I could really see what that meant to him and to us as a family, and the things that it afforded us. Um, I mean, he did lose it later, but that again, that’s another story. Um, but yeah, I, I think I always thought that I would do it.

And my, my first boss in the first agency I went to, when I left, he said, “You’ll be owning your own business within 10 years,” and I did it within six. Brilliant. So yeah. So yeah, it, it… I think it was always there.  

[00:04:07] Ben: So when you talk about that moment of losing your job, being made redundant, um, how does that affect you now leading your own team and, uh, talking about them outside, outside the room? 

[00:04:20] Sadie: Yeah, I mean, it- it’s really hard. We have had to make redundancies, and personally, I have found it really hard to do that. Um, uh, um, you know, I, I’ll be honest, recently, you know, we, we’ve, it, you know, business is tough and you’re making decisions all the time, and you have to look at you know, I run a PR, marketing, events agency. My biggest cost is staff, and you know that you can turn that profit margin so quickly by removing a member of the team. And it’s horrible to have to think that. And, you know, we have to think, we renew those thoughts constantly. 

[00:04:59] Ben: Um. The, I mean, and that is the times we’re in, I guess.

[00:05:00] Sadie: Yep, absolutely. 

[00:05:06] Ben: You and I were just talking before we hit record about shaking trees and, uh, finding clients, and looking, looking for things. You, you were in a, are in a, a very niche area,… um, which is what a lot of business leaders and coaches like, niche down and that’s where you’re gonna get it. But we, you and I niche in an area uh, which is, uh, quite volatile at the minute, like many, many areas. Um, so what are you doing to counter that? 

[00:05:36] Sadie: Uh, well, firstly, we’ve expanded globally. So we have an office in LA, we have an office in Boston, so that- that’s one thing. So then we can shake different trees in different areas.

Palm trees. Exactly. Um, and also we’ve gone into new sectors. So and those sectors are… They’re, they’re related to broadcast media technology. Um, so we do sports, we do audiovisual, and 18 months ago I acquired a business in the physical security space.

So they do PR for body cams and CCTV cameras. It’s all, again, it’s all video content as it is in my sports and AV division. Um, but we, we’ve gone into other niche sectors, and we’re continuing to do that. Um, the other thing that we’ve done is we- we’ve put into the business a real sales engine, and that, it…

What’s been interesting is our sales engine isn’t full of salespeople. We are getting the team to be our sales engine and are en- enabling them with different programs to be able to do that, and then we’ve brought into the business a sales admin support person to be able to oversee all this and just make the sales engine work on a daily basis.

[00:06:52] Ben: How did you arrive at that, at that decision? 

[00:06:55] Sadie: Uh, we had a commercial director, and we had a business development manager, and we just realized it wasn’t working for us. They, you know, it, it, it just, having somebody… We, we had someone opening the doors for us, uh, mostly via stalking people on LinkedIn, and I think we just got to the point where we felt we just needed to do something different and see what happened, and it was a big risk for us.

It was, it was, you know, we’re taking out that, you, uh, the business, someone that’s constantly contacting people, but we just felt that we needed to do something different. Um, I’m very lucky in that I, I, I’m part of a big group called Agency Hackers, and I, I, I was talking to a lot of other agency owners and specialists in business that, in agency business that were like, “Right, actually, business development in agencies doesn’t always work as a role.

There, there’s a lot of other ways that you can do this.” And so we just thought, right, we’re just gonna try it and, and see what happens. Um, and it’s a lot more work because it’s a lot. We’ve got five different programs running across the business. The reason we brought in an admin support person is so that I can say to her at any point – Where are we with this programme? Is this moving forward? Is this working? Is it not working? Like, what do we need to do to change that? 

[00:08:19] Ben: And is this based, this is based around, uh, your, your team being your, your advocates, like you say, and your sales team, and there’s an incentive involved there. And so how… Can you talk to us a little bit about how it works?

[00:08:32] Sadie: Yeah. So one of the biggest things is we’ve, uh… A- actually it’s with another company that came in called As The Crow Flies, and they go into businesses and teach them how to get referrals. Um, and that, you know, it’s such a strong sales method. Um, so we’ve, we’ve called it the Super Connector Program. 

[00:08:52] Ben: Yeah.

[00:08:52] Sadie: And everybody on our team has to nominate a super connector that they then go to, and what you do is you, you don’t just say, “Oh, Bob, you know, can you, oh, just recommend us, just refer us.” Cause that just doesn’t work. ‘Cause they go, “Oh yeah, of course we will.” And then they never actually do it- 

[00:09:12] Ben: Yeah

[00:09:12] Sadie: ’cause they’re busy, and they don’t know who to refer you to. So what you have to do in the first instance is find the people you want them to refer you to. So there’s a bit of LinkedIn trawling, there’s asking them who, who they know. Um, and then you provide them with the tools to refer them. So it’s always easier if someone sends you a draft of an email rather than saying, “Just start from scratch.”

So we give them the draft of the email. We say, “Also add this.” We write, you know, we’ve written some great articles in the business about AI and PR and various other things, and say, “Look, introduce us, we get, we want introductions to these three people. Um, here’s, here’s an email draft, and then here’s, here’s something to incentivize them as well.”

[00:09:59] Ben: But it’s really specific, right, as well? 

[00:10:00] Sadie: Yeah. Very specific. 

[00:10:02] Ben: Because you are specific on your ideal customer. You’re specific on what you’re gonna ask the person who’s referring to.

[00:10:10] Sadie: Exactly

[00:10:12] Ben: Do you think that’s where most people get it wrong? 

[00:10:12] Sadie: Yes. Yeah. ‘Cause they just say, “Oh, y- you’ll just refer us,” and it’s just not enough, and people are too busy.

So it’s a, it’s a program, and As The Crow Flies, a brilliant company, and they give you a playbook, and they teach, they do talks with your team on how to do it. I think the other thing is we now have a monthly sales meeting which every member of the team has to be on. 

[00:10:35] Ben: Yeah. 

[00:10:36] Sadie: It, you know, a- and it’s important.

I, I think that your team need to understand that they are, they need to sell as well, and it’s not like hard selling. It’s just, it is making them aware that without money coming in, money can’t go out. It’s re- it’s really basic stuff. 

[00:10:56] Ben: I think it is, and I think smaller business owners in particular are often, I don’t know if scared’s the right word, or, um- Just, you know, don’t want to have that conversation with their staff, particularly if it’s small teams. Because it’s a bit like, “Right, I’m here. I’m up the front. I’m leading, and this is what we’re gonna do, and I’ve brought this job in.” But actually it benefits everyone. Because, guys, if you keep bringing the work in, then you all keep getting the job and getting paid.

We can grow, can expand, we can do great things together. 

[00:11:28] Sadie: Exactly. And I think, you know, this year we’ve launched something at Bubble called Bubble Fest. So. Yeah. I might need a videographer. 

[00:11:30] Ben: Right. Okay. Very good. 

[00:11:38] Sadie: Um, so you know, we always used to do team kickoffs, um, and even I was bored by them when I was leading them, and I, you know…

We always used to have them in January, and we’d sometimes fly the teams over from the US and sometimes not, or I would fly over to the US in January, in LA. A lot warmer. Um, and it, it… Like January in the UK, we’d go to a hotel normally around, like the Berko area. And you know, it would be absolutely miserable, and there would be like an old couple who got a voucher for Christmas sat in the end of a room, like where there’s like 20 rowdy PR people sat having fun, and y- you know, and it, it was just… But the fun bit was just the dinner and, you know, standing there doing a PowerPoint and, and I was just like, “No, this is… You know, we can deliver this information to the team in, in different ways.” So we now have a quarterly town hall, um, meeting.

We have our monthly sales meetings, then we have various other team meetings. But it was like, we don’t need to stand there with, you know, in a ho- in a cold hotel room in January. Uh, so we’re having Bubble Fest, um, instead. So we’re delivering- 

[00:12:58] Ben: Hang on. Are you not just doing it still in a cold hotel room in January and calling it the Bubble Fest? Is there not a PR and marketing spin on this? 

[00:13:05] Sadie: No. There is a lot of PR and marketing spin. No. We are in a field in Leicestershire instead. In, at the end of May. 

[00:13:13] Ben: Okay. 

[00:13:14] Sadie: Um, and everyone’s flying over to it, and we’ve got different speakers coming in. We’ve got… It’s in a tent obviously.

We’ve got somebody coming in to teach us how to DJ for those people that want to DJ. We’ve got someone coming in from Colour Me Beautiful to talk about what colors you should wear. We’ve got a wellbeing session. 

[00:13:38] Ben: Suppliers invited? 

[00:13:39] Sadie: So, uh, maybe. May- maybe. Maybe. 

[00:13:41] Ben: Yeah, that sounds like a hard no.

Yeah. Uh, but, so I thought it was, it was worth the ask. But that, getting the team together for, for moments like that, then I, I guess, that helps with that in s- your, I wanna say building a family, but family and, family and business are different, right? 

[00:14:00] Sadie: Oh- There’s, you don’t say that. no. Families are dysfunctional. I mean, I love my family. I came f- come from a great family. I might change that because I’m playing golf with my brother later this afternoon. Uh, no, but I, I absolutely do. But a lot of families are dysfunctional. And I think when businesses say that they’re like their fam- you know, “Oh, we’re like a family” I’m like, “Oh, bloody hell.”

[00:14:20] Ben: Oh- Oh, oh dear. 

[00:14:21] Sadie: Oh dear. Yeah. Rather than wonderful. And 

[00:14:23] Ben: does make, make you, makes one cringe somewhat. 

[00:14:27] Sadie: It’s, uh- It, it does, but I think for us it’s more around… So somebody’s, uh, um… We’ve got a business advisor who’s fantastic and, you know, he- his whole analogy is more around, um, when doing relay racing.

So have your team got this? Do you know when you’re gonna pass the baton over to someone that they’re gonna take it and they’re gonna look after that baton until they pass it on to somebody else? And I think it’s, I think that’s the environment that we try and create, that they’re more of a team really rather than a family.

And I, uh, you know, and I think, you know, we’re, we’re, we’re 22 very different personalities, uh, which is good. Can’t really employ 21 people like me ’cause it would be a bit chaotic. Um, but you know, I, I, I need people that are different to me, absolutely, and I need people that are more intelligent than me and smarter and more connected, and I need all of that.

But yeah, we’re getting everybody together should be really good fun. 

[00:15:28] Ben: You are notorious for, “I’ve got this idea.” “I’m gonna do it. I’m gonna…” Which is why you say, um, that you’re, you can’t have 21 people like you in business. But that, your, your skill, I think, from, from watching you, and we’ve known each other for many years, is building that team and putting the right bums on the right seats. 

[00:15:50] Sadie: Yeah. 

[00:15:51] Ben: And in that area, but it, it’s not easy, right? 

[00:15:55] Sadie: No, it’s not. You know, it… Uh, uh, people all say, “Oh, business ownership is lonely.” It is. It really is, you know? 

[00:16:04] Ben: I think that’s whatever size it is as well, right? 

[00:16:05] Sadie: Oh, 100%. It, that is, you know, and I think the pressures that you feel as a business owner are so different to what you feel as an employee.

It, it, it, it really is different. And that’s why, you know, I, I, I’m a very active member of some, uh, of things like Agency Hackers, and everybody, you know, and I know that you do Vistage and, uh, and you know that there’s other things like that. But find, find those people. It, whether it’s the local Berkhamsted group or, or whatever it is, fi- find, find other business, ha- sit and have corporate therapy with somebody … 

[00:16:44] Ben: We’ve said many a time on this podcast, even though we’re only 12 episodes in. But we have said it many times. You don’t know what you don’t know, right? So you get in an, in a room with agents with other agencies. I do it with video production companies.

I’ve got a little bunch of guys that we get together at least twice a year. Usually once a quarter. And we’re all having the same, same issues. Same challenges. And, you know, how important… And we’ve, we’ve had the same business coach at one point. Uh, we’ve had other business coaches.

Who’ve like, “Have you, have you thought of this? Have you done that?” It’s so important, right? 

[00:17:21] Sadie: Yeah. I mean, just sharing of documents and templates and things like that. I mean, you just, you learn… There’s so much out there in the world now. Um, I was desperately trying to get through this podcast without mentioning AI, but I’m now gonna say it.

So y- you know, it’s… I, I mean, I, I, there’s five agency owners that we all get together once a quarter. We’ve got, all got different agencies, but all in the creative-ish space. Uh, and two of them are really advanced in what they do in AI. The other three are less so. Me being in that three.

Shock horror. Owns a tech PR agency. Rubbish at AI. Um, and but I come out… I mean, literally, I come out of those meetings and it’s like, “Right, you, you could be doing this, and you could be doing that. Oh, here’s, here’s a tool to do this. Here’s a tool to do that.” And in return I’ll send them other things that I’m doing.

We’re, we’re… At the moment, like you say, I come up with these crazy ideas. We’re launching, you know, you say, how do you stay in business? We’re launching, uh, an internal communications part of the business. So quite often in PR it’s forgotten, ’cause it, it is a different thing. It is a different beast. And so we found someone that’s gonna, uh, do that for us.

Um, so I’ve been sending, you know, my other agency hackers mates from that group, all the work I’m doing on ag- on internal comms. So, you know, w- you know, what goes around comes around, and if you give somebody something, then they’re more than likely to give something back to you at some point. 

[00:18:55] Ben: I still use…

It’s obviously, it- … there’s been different iterations of it, but I still use a costing spreadsheet for jobs that was given to me by a producer, a video producer probably 20 years ago. 

[00:19:11] Sadie: Yeah, absolutely. 

[00:19:12] Ben: When I first… Well, actually it will have been 20 years ago. We’re, Chuffed Productions is 20 years old this year.

[00:19:13] Sadie: Wow. Happy day. 

[00:19:19] Ben: Yeah Uh, and, um, well, we must do something for it. Yeah, we must do something for that. Um, and this, it was almost like, “Oh, if you’re doing it on your own, here, this will be really helpful.” And I’ve then shared it with loads. I shared it with someone last week and they were like, “Whoa!” Whoa. And I’m like I know … ’cause the, you start a business and you…you just don’t know. So I guess the question is why? Why, why do you start a business? What, what’s the… And what keeps you going? What’s the burning desire? 

[00:19:46] Sadie: Uh, why do it? I, I wanted to… I never wanted to be made redundant again, and you know, and, uh, obviously. 

[00:19:55] Ben: That’s really, that’s really interesting, isn’t it?

[00:19:58] Sadie: It, it… God, was it an ego thing? Probably. You know, I ju- I just didn’t like it. I, a, a, a ego thing, a control thing. 

[00:20:07] Ben: Is it, or is it, is it just purely emotional? 

[00:20:11] Sadie: I think it probably was. I felt that, I, I just felt at that point that I wasn’t good enough. Why would you get rid of your best PR person? ‘Cause obviously I was.

But I, you know, I really felt I was within that particular team. Um, I think that, you know, so that’s one reason. Um, money. So you know, people always say, “Oh, I’m not driven by money.” I hate it when you read, like, these Sunday Times articles and they go, “What motivates you?” Looking after… No, money motivates me, because I have to pay all these salaries.

I have to pay my own. Yeah. I have to pay my mortgage. I’ve got elderly parents, I’ve got a child, and I like nice things in life. You know, money, people are all shy of saying it, but money gives, gives you access to things. I can go to concerts, I can, I can go to places I wouldn’t normally be able to go to.

Um, I don’t have a lot of it, but I’m, I am not scared to say that money mo- motivates me. What keeps me going is obviously the dream of selling the business for for another pot of money that will in some way be life-changing. 

[00:21:27] Ben: And when you say life-changing, is that… ‘Cause, uh, everyone’s version of, uh, success or that life-changing thing is, is different, right? To someone… 

[00:21:39] Sadie: Oh, 100%. 

[00:21:40] Ben: To someone it’s, it’s one. To someone it’s two. To someone it’s three, whatever those numbers. So yeah, everyone’s version of success or everyone’s version of, you know, what is e- what is enough- 

[00:21:50] Sadie: Yeah … 

[00:21:51] Ben: and what, when will you know that that’s that – Is it a magic number in your head? Or is it just a… ‘Cause obviously cost of living and stuff, and, uh, is, is changing slightly so that number’s probably getting bigger. 

[00:22:04] Sadie: Oh, the, the nu- yeah, the, the number’s getting bigger. O- well, the number should be getting bigger, but the access to that is probably getting smaller because… you know, it, in my, in agency world, we always talk about, uh, multiples of what you would sell for, like most other businesses.

Um, and that’s changing. Uh, you know, and it’s not going up, it’s going down. Now, the more niche you are, the, the higher it is. The more global you are, the higher it is. Um, for me, I, I don’t want a bigger house. There’s only three of us in our family. My son will go to university hopefully in two years. Uh, so we don’t need bigger space there.

What I, you know, for me it’s having, having additional money to not have, well, not have to pay a mortgage. I guess to not have to work. And I, I don’t work 9:00 to 5:00. I start at half 6 most days, and last night I finished at 10:00. You know, but it’s not always like that, you know? But to maybe, you know, to maybe have somewhere where I can go away for the weekend and not have to be back until Tuesday.

[00:23:04] Sadie: Yeah. 

[00:23:04] Sadie: Um, just having that. Uh, you know, I mean, I, I will not stop working, you know? That’s never gonna happen. I- So … 

[00:23:12] Ben: I always kind of define it as, I think you and I are similar in that way of, why would I stop working? ‘Cause I really enjoy what I’m doing. It takes me to great places and it helps me meet interesting people. Uh, it, it’s just being able to do what you want to do when you want to do it, right? It, it- It’s not about getting on a- It’s not … private jet or a first class thing… it’s just about, “Oh, actually, I wanna go to that festival at the weekend.” “Or I’d like to go to that sporting event,” or, “I’d just like to sit at home- And- with the kids and- It- … have an, have a nice barbecue with a steak on it,” or whatever it is. 

[00:23:46] Sadie: Yeah, exactly. And being able, you know, to being able to see friends and family and, and, and just do that. And I think it’s, i- it’s, I’ve always seen it as a- access and f- like you say, flexibility. 

[00:23:58] Ben: Um- I’ve just looked up while you were chatting, uh, ’cause it was bugging me.

There’s a quote from Donald Miller about money. And you know Don- Donald Miller, building a story brand. Uh, and he’s often said, “Let’s give money a good name, and let’s not be afraid to make it.” 

[00:24:14] Sadie: 100%. Yeah, yeah. I mean, it is, you know… And, and I wa- you know, I, if we’re not making money within Bubble, I can’t do Bubble Fest.

It’s not cheap flying nine people over from America. You know, I can’t fly them over for a day. You know? They’ve got to be in hotels a week. You know, we wanna put on a good event. You know, we want it to be nice. 

[00:24:38] Ben: So as part of that building and uh, expanding into America, where there are dif- different legislations and different stuff. Did that not just scare the bejesus out of you? 

[00:24:51] Sadie: Uh, yeah, it does. It, it really does. But I’m … I’ve always been a risk-taker. Um, and I- 

 

[00:24:53] Ben: Where does that come from? 

[00:25:02] Sadie: Uh, des- my dad, 100%. So my dad, and actually we were talking about it the other day. We did, we did some work on sort of culture thing with somebody and, and you look at the people that influenced your life up until the age of eight, so that’s when you’re building your neuro pathways.

Um, and you know, I, I, I hear a lot of speakers about culture and leadership. This guy, shout out to Jason Langley, uh, probably one of the best people I’ve ever worked with for that because it’s all neuroscience. It’s not like, “Whoo, whoo,” you know? It’s not that. It is, this is when your brain was built, this was how it was built, and you look at the people that influenced you.

You look at a, a male tree and a female tree in people that are in your life, and I have very few people on the male side that influenced me, ’cause I just … W- I didn’t really have grandparents and stuff and uncle, or uncles in particular. But our next-door neighbor when I was growing up was very influential in my life, owned race horses.

And when I went, “Oh my God, I re- I take risks,” I also thought of it ’cause it was the Masters that weekend and I was like, “Well, I haven’t put my bets on yet.” Um, so and it just made me think, “Oh, I do gamble, and I’m, you know, I’m taking a risk by launching into the US and, and what if it messes up?” And I sort of go, “Oh, no,” again, back to the ego thing.

I go, “Oh, no, everyone’s … You know, my competition, everyone’s gonna laugh at me.” And then I just think, “Oh, well, at least I did it.” 

[00:26:33] Ben: Are, are you that bothered about the competition? 

[00:26:37] Sadie: Yes. You’ve gotta be competitive in business. I remember meeting somebody-  

[00:26:44] Ben: But not, uh, beyond being competitive, are you that … ‘Cause it, are you bothered about what they think? ‘Cause that’s kind of what you said, is, 

[00:26:52] Sadie: Um, yeah, I am. A- and you know, there, there is definitely a side of me that doubts a lot, you know? But I’ve managed to deal with that and pack it away- 

[00:27:03] Ben: Mm-hmm … 

[00:27:04] Sadie: and go- Actually, you know, and the other thing that you know I’ve done is Rise.

[00:27:09] Ben: I was gonna come onto that, yeah. 

[00:27:14] Sadie: Uh, so, you know, and for, you know, uh, when I started that, I was very aware that I might get a lot of criticism for, for doing something around gender diversity in a very male-dominated environment where the,

[00:27:23] Ben: – So just explain Rise to us then because the industry that, that you’re, you’re in on, on the broadcast TV and tech side of things is, has always has been… I mean, we, we’ve been going to trade shows together for about 20 years, and I think at one point there was you, Dawn, and a couple of others, and that was it. It’s not, it was a, a, it was a sausage, we used to call it the sausage fest. 

[00:27:43] Sadie: Yeah, it was. Still is.

[00:27:47] Ben: ‘Cause it was just you. And it’s still very much male-dominated. But with some amazing women working in that space. And tell us, yeah, tell me about Rise and how, why it came about … 

[00:27:58] Sadie: So, you know, when I was younger, I didn’t r- I did notice it but didn’t mind it, and I’ve al- you know, I’m quite a tomboy, you know.

I, I love football. I can ride a motorbike. I play golf. You know, I’ve got two very strong brothers and a very,

[00:28:12] Ben: I was about to say, you wouldn’t tell by all your frills but that would be the really wrong thing to say when talking about a gender and diversity group. 

[00:28:18] Sadie: Yeah, exactly. Um, so, so I didn’t really notice it and didn’t really care.

[00:28:23] Ben: Mm. 

[00:28:23] Sadie: Um, I had my son, he’s now 16, and I, I think when I I say I came back from maternity leave, I, I didn’t really… You know, I’m not, and I’m not being one of those, “Oh, I was doing this when, you know, he was, like, two days old.” You know, I did have a bit of a break, but, you know, but I, I think when I came back, and I went into IBC was my first sort of week back at work, our big trade show, and I was like, “Oh, this is…” And then s- 

[00:28:52] Ben: So for context, IBC is a massive trade show in the industry that’s in Amsterdam for, it was probably about nine days long back then. It’s now, they now cut it down to four. But it’s every single hall at the RAI. And there’s, I think, like, um, uh- Well- … well, think thr- uh, probably three, um, Excels, something like that.

[00:29:16] Sadie: Yeah. Oh, God, easily. You know, 80,000 people. That type of thing. 

[00:29:19] Ben: So you went back to that for the first time.  

[00:29:21] Sadie: Went back to that for the first time, and I just re- I was so much more aware of it. And my husband works in the industry as well, and, you know, and I was getting, “Oh, who’s looking after Elliot?”

Like I’d done this dreadful thing by running a company and going, you know, leaving him. And I, you know, and in the end, I was just getting so, you know, I was like, “Oh, don’t worry. He’s six months old. I’ve taught him how to use the microwave. He’ll be fine.” Ha-ha, you know. But inside, and then somebody called me a marketing girl.

And yes, okay, I do work in marketing, and yes, I am a, a, a female. And some women are absolutely fine with the term- Girl, I’m not. I, I find it derogatory, but that’s my personal opinion… um, and I try and not spout about it too much. Um, but it enabled me to start Rise. Because… Well, it actually didn’t enable me to start Rise.

I went, I got myself onto the board of Women in Film and TV, and so then I realized they weren’t looking after the women in the tech part, and so I started what is now Rise. So that was nearly 10 years ago. 

[00:30:25] Ben: And it goes from strength to strength. 

[00:30:27] Sadie: It does. It’s a bit nuts. Yeah. It, it, it’s…

[00:30:31] Ben: So what… That, that’s one of those things that did you ever think… Well, obviously the desire- No … has gotta be for it to get that big though, right? 

[00:30:37] Sadie: Oh God, yeah. I, and I think you start, you know, we had our first mentor and cohort, and, you know, those women I still know, like ni- eight, nine years later, they will still come up to me and say, “Thank you for putting me on the Rise mentoring program.”

I’m still c- you know, they’re still connected to the people in their cohort. They’re s- you know, they go to each other’s weddings, all that sort of stuff. 

[00:31:03] Ben: And for those that don’t know the industry, the kind of brands that have got involved that are house- household names- 

[00:31:09] Sadie: Yeah … 

[00:31:09] Ben: like Sky and ITV and

[00:31:13] Sadie: Yeah, Sky, yeah, BBC, you know, u- uh, major manufacturers within the industry, um, and suppliers to the industry.

Uh, we’re now global. We have chapters in the Middle East, India, Canada, um, America, Europe. Uh, about to launch into LATAM. Um, we’ve now launched it into another sector, so we’ve now taken… So we now have Rise AV- 

[00:31:38] Ben: Oh, amazing

[00:31:38] Sadie: As well. So for Rise AV a- and Rise Broadcast, we’re, we’re very active in, uh, now in Singapore and Hong Kong as well, and Australia and New Zealand.

[00:31:49] Ben: Well, congratulations. It is a wonderful thing. What’s the drive behind that? Just, uh, or what’s the continued drive behind that? Because is it not changing or it’s not changing fast enough, right? 

[00:32:02] Sadie: How, how do you measure it? So, uh, we, we, we try and measure it by female attendance at trade shows.

Uh, so we have gone, if I talk about IBC, we’ve gone from 9% to 15 in, I think it’s, that’s about 15 years. So for me, it’s ensuring that women stay in the industry, um, making our industries an attractive to come into. 

[00:32:29] Ben: Yeah. 

[00:32:29] Sadie: So that they, you know, that we’re bringing in talent from other sectors, whether that’s the IT sector, w- whatever that is, but we’re making it attractive.

Being able to see women in C-suite positions. There’s 2% female CEOs in our, in those two sectors. Uh, uh, you know, and that’s out of, like, 2,000 companies. You just… I mean, I can p- I can name on, like, two hands the female CEOs 

[00:32:59] Ben: Well, you know everybody in the industry as well. I mean, it’s- I mean, that’s a staggering figure.

Do, do we know what the comparison is with other industries? Is it- Uh, 

[00:33:06] Sadie: it is a bit lower. 

[00:33:08] Ben: Yeah. 

[00:33:09] Sadie: Um, but yeah. I mean, but it’s not, you know, it- it’s not shocking in comparison to the other industries. Um, I think, you know, it, it comes from a lot of the, on the manufacturer side, a lot of the business owners are engineers, and that is typically you know, very typically a male, um, uh, male-dominated sector or field. And, and there is a reason for that. You know, they, they’ve done the research to say when, um, girls, uh, are growing up, the majority of girls, if you gave them a hard bit of plastic toy and then a squidgy thing girls will go to the squidgy thing, the pink, fluffy… And there’s nothing wrong with that. And boys will tend to, you know, this is our genetic makeup. We, you know, we need… It is different. The boys will go to that. So that, but we need to allow women to have the opportunity if they want to do something in a technical industry, that they can, and they can be supported.

They can, you know… And the reason I called it Rise, I never wanted to call it women in something. I wanted to call it Rise ’cause I wanted to see women go up and up in their career. We have, most women have a natural break called pregnancy. 

[00:34:29] Ben: Yeah. 

[00:34:30] Sadie: You know? But we’re getting these other natural, you know, these other breaks in our lives now as women where we’re, we tend to be the person that looks after our elderly parents more.

So, you know, how can we support those women to go through being mums, through having to look after your parents or, or whatever that is. Illness. I mean, you know, all of those things. How can we support them to go, you know, to get to the top of the industry, if they want to get there, by the way. Or, or can we find them another job?

There’s a whole group of people in the sports industry that work on these outside broadcast trucks. 

[00:35:06] Ben: Yeah. 

[00:35:07] Sadie: They’re away for six months of the year. And, you know, you, that’s a very different family set up and a different life. When they stop being on the trucks, what do they do? How can we support them with- within the business so they stay within the bu-within the industry.  

[00:35:21] Ben: We saw that a lot during COVID, didn’t we?

[00:35:23] Sadie: Yeah, huge amount. 

[00:35:25] Ben: So when all of a sudden you know, everyone’s working away, and then all of a sudden they’re back with their families, and it’s, for some families that, that actually works really well, doesn’t it? It’s, that’s how their life is.  It’s like spending six months away from each other is basically how they function and how it works. Um, we are coming towards the end of our conversation- … believe it or not.  So, um, to wrap things up, I’m wondering, as a business owner um, what, if there was one thing you could go back and change, is, is there anything that would be? 

[00:35:57] Sadie: Ooh, yeah, I would have learnt more about finance quicker, so.

[00:36:02] Ben: Me too. 

[00:36:03] Sadie:You know, it is- 

[00:36:04] Ben: And maybe saving a bit. 

[00:36:06] Sadie: Yeah. I mean, you know, you, you know, you, you have this great idea, you come up with a name, you come up with a logo, you know, you do all, you do the nice stuff. 

[00:36:18] Ben: Yeah. 

[00:36:18] Sadie: You know? Oh, and then you go to a bank. 

[00:36:20] Ben: Yeah. 

[00:36:21] Sadie: Um, and then you have to register for that, and then you have to do this.

And I wish I had … I wish I’d embraced … ‘Cause now I love it, and I really enjoy it, and I, I’ve worked with two subsequent FD’s within my business that have made me love it, because I’ve said to them, I, I mean, I’m, I am dyslexic, I’m probably dyscalculic as well, but I, I, I’ve lear- I’ve said to them, “Don’t use that terminology, use this.

Create that spreadsheet in this way because I see it more, this is the information that I need.” And I wish, A, I’d found them quicker, um, but also just embraced that. And every meeting that we have now at board level, at leadership level, um, with my sales admin support person, the sales meeting, everything starts with the numbers.

Because it is only the numbers that tell the truth of the state of your business. Um, so yeah, I wish I’d done more on that. People always ask me if I wish I’d done it with somebody else. And I-  

[00:37:27] Ben: Now, that’s an interesting one. I’d never even think of asking you that. No. ‘Cause I’d be like, “No.” 

[00:37:36] Sadie: No, ’cause they wouldn’t put up with that. 

[00:37:37] Ben: No, well, not at all. It’d be more like you’d just be like- … “No. What? I’m doing this. You’re not changing my mind.” “What’s going on there?” Trust you to drop the, the dyslexia in right at the very end of the interview, because that’s quite an interesting thing for a, for a, a business owner that … And you don’t talk about that a lot. 

[00:37:54] Sadie: I didn’t know till I was 48. So my son was getting diagnosed, tested, whatever. Your next speaker will tell you about this one. Um, uh, yeah, and w- when he was going through the process, I was like, “Oh, I do that. Oh, I do that.” And, and so yeah, the assessor said, “I, I think we need to get you assessed,” and we did.

[00:38:16] Ben: Amazing. So- That’s… I know somebody who went through exactly the same thing… but with ADHD. So was just, uh, uh, you know, on the test and was like, “Um.” 

[00:38:24] Sadie: Mm. Mm. “Um.” Yeah. Yeah. And, and do you know what? It’s been great. And, and one of the most powerful things was, um, that I was able to talk to my team about it.

Um, so I went to the We Are Dyslexia book, and, you know… And I love reading. I, I’m also a professional proofreader, so it’s, i- uh, but to get, but bec- I know, because of my focus, exactly, then I, I can do it. There is probably a bit of something else as well in there, you know, on the spectrum side.

Um, but, uh, I, I just e- I just embraced it. I was able to say to my team, “Because of this, I now know why you’ll find that I do miss words, um, i- in emails.” Yeah. Um, I’m also, because of it, I am normally quite a few steps ahead of everybody else in meetings and conversations. 

[00:39:20] Ben: How… Oh, so you’re already at the end of this podcast.

[00:39:22] Sadie: Yeah, I’ve done. Thanks. I’ve gone home. 

[00:39:25] Ben: Brilliant. Um, la- last thing then. Um, h- do you think… ‘Cause you only found out when you were 38. 48. 48. Uh, so last week. 

[00:39:34] Ben: Uh, so you only found out when you were 48. Do you think if you knew about it beforehand, it would’ve changed…or let’s be dramatic and say it w- it would’ve changed everything. Or let’s be less dramatic and say if you knew beforehand, do you think it would’ve changed things, changed the way you’d have done stuff? 

[00:39:51] Sadie: Uh, no, not really. I just- so, no, boring answer, but I, I feel that, that… Okay, I mean, would it, would it have helped at school?

Well, I don’t know, ’cause we didn’t have laptops then anyway, so it wouldn’t.. you know, it wouldn’t have made school, you know, difference to, to school or uni. No, because we won’t, wouldn’t have what, what they- 

[00:40:16] Ben: And you had a great time at uni, right? 

[00:40:16] Sadie: And I had a great time at uni. So, um, so no. I, I do- I think it, it maybe would’ve helped with me knowing why I’m, why I think very differently.

And one of our joint friends, Jane, um, who gave me a job when she really shouldn’t have, I totally blagged it, has always said to me, “You just think so differently, to problems, to creative ideas, to, to ways around things. Your brain has always worked in a very, very different way to anybody I’ve met.”

Sometimes that’s good, sometimes that’s bad. But, you know, she’s ju- And I think, I think having known that, that the reason for it, I’m probably not in my head gone, “Oh, you’re just a little bit weird,” um, you know, instead I now probably- 

[00:41:12] Ben: Sorry, I’m supposed to say you’re not a little bit weird … 

[00:41:13] Sadie: You’re not. You’re very weird.  

[00:41:14] Ben: Yeah.You’re, you’re … On that note- 

[00:41:17] Sadie: Unique … 

[00:41:18] Ben: uh, you are indeed unique, Sadie Groom. I, I’d love to get you back on the podcast ’cause there’s loads of stuff we haven’t talked about like you leaving your husband in an office that you gave to me.

Uh, about you’re the reason I’m here in Berkhamsted ’cause you said, uh, uh, you’re the reason when, when we had children, “Don’t have children in London. Move out first.” “Meet all your friends through NCT.” So there’s loads more to cover. Uh, so we’ll save that for the, uh-  

[00:41:42] Sadie: Yeah, I’d love to come back.

[00:41:44] Ben: Yes. Yes. Sadie Groom, part two, coming- … in the future. Thanks for joining us.  

[00:41:48] Sadie: No, thank you for asking me. 

[00:41:51] Ben: Thanks for watching this week’s episode of Berko and Beyond. If you’d like to be a guest on the show, then drop us an email, podcast@berkoandbeyond.com. And don’t forget to like and subscribe wherever you watch or listen to your podcasts.

We’ll see you next week.