Boost Skills With Student Placements from West Herts College

[00:00:00] Amanda: There’s been a really strong narrative nationally that says young people don’t have any skills. We need to do something to upskill young people. Young people don’t have the right attitude. They don’t want to work. They’re snowflakes. These are myths. The fact that that’s a myth is borne out by our experience.

The observation is made that they’re viewed as soft, the soft generation, but actually they’re people who have a desire to work. 84% of NEETs say they want to find employment.

[00:00:28] Ben: Amanda, Aaron, welcome to Berko and Beyond 

[00:00:31] Aaron: Thanks for having us. 

[00:00:32] Ben: Great to have you here, uh, from West Herts College. So tell us a little bit about what your roles are there at the college. 

[00:00:39] Amanda: Sure. So I’m deputy principal for the group 

[00:00:42] Aaron: And my name’s Aaron, as you said, and I am, uh, director of marketing communication.

[00:00:47] Ben: Brilliant. Uh, we’ve managed to get Aaron along. This is his fir- this is his first outing on anything kind of media-wise. Is that right?  

[00:00:54] Amanda: It’s true, yeah. So he normally lines people up, puts them in front of the camera, and watches and laughs from behind. 

[00:00:59] Ben: Excellent. 

[00:01:00] Aaron: Well, that is part of the job description, so yeah, I guess so. Um, but here I am today in living color. 

[00:01:05] Ben: Brilliant. Great to have you both here. Um, so for anyone who hasn’t engaged with the college for a while, tell us a little bit about West Herts College and the group. 

[00:01:13] Amanda: Okay, so it’s a group of colleges. We’ve got two colleges. Uh, West Herts College has got a main campus in Watford and another one in Hemel Hempstead.

And then we’ve also got Barnfield College within the group, which is in Luton. 

[00:01:24] Ben: Okay. Uh, and what role does it play within the community? 

[00:01:27] Amanda: So further education colleges provide training on pretty much everything, um, from low level for school leavers or for people who need a different kind of training, all the way up to level five, which is second-year degree level, in pretty much every, every subject area you can think of, apart from agriculture.

So if you’re somebody who wants to train to get a job, train to get on in your job, continue your training after leaving school, probably we will have the course for you. So it’s quite important to help people in their community to make those next steps. 

[00:01:58] Ben: A- and is it a booming business at the minute? Are there plenty of people wanting to enroll?

[00:02:03] Aaron: Absolutely. Um, 16 to 18-year-olds, which is our kind of core business, um, the, the numbers are, um, growing year on year. Um, there are lots of young people in our towns and surrounding villages that are, are choosing vocational and technical education. Um, we’re in a very populous area in terms of, uh, individuals, but also really good quality training providers, sixth forms a- and FE colleges.

So there’s lots of competition and lots of choice for young people. Um, but that leads to a really, um, high-quality market in terms of the training that’s available. So it’s a, it’s a, it’s a really buoyant time. Um, and there’s lots of options available for both young people and adults looking to train. 

[00:02:45] Ben: Um, it’s a buoyant time. It’s, it’s also a bit of a challenging time for, uh, for young learners, uh, and for a new a- what I thought was a new acronym, NEET. So I was reading a, um, I was reading about this study that’s just been done recently just about those challenges and one in six young people not being in education or in employment.

Um, so how are you seeing that, that in, in real terms? 

[00:03:13] Amanda: Yeah, I mean, it’s, it’s really difficult for people to get that first rung onto the job ladder, and that’s the biggest problem. Um, there are lots of causes of people being NEET. So in some cases, it’s, um, that it’s ill health, it’s disability. Um, but in, in many cases, and this is what the report that I think you read is showing, it’s actually that people are gaining qualifications, and they ought to be ready for work, but those first jobs, those entry-level careers just aren’t there anymore.

Um, but it’s interesting that you say it’s a new term. The term NEET, not in education, employment, or training, 

[00:03:47] Ben:  I was gonna say, yeah, what was, what was … Yeah. 

[00:03:49] Amanda: Yeah. So it’s, it’s a term that we’ve had for a long time, and interestingly, it hasn’t dropped below 10% for the last 25 years. 

[00:03:55] Ben: Okay. 

[00:03:55] Amanda: So actually rates of NEET have been really, really high.

The reason that it’s hit the news at the moment, obviously there’s been this Milburn review, they’ve published their interim report. Uh, but there’s also a forecast that it could rise by another 5%, um, over the next five years, and that’s really concerning. Because when people don’t get that first step onto the job ladder, or when they fall out of education and they don’t find something positive to do, the indication is they find it really, really hard to get back into that system, and so they may remain unemployed, economically inactive for the rest of their lives.

So we really need to help them at that stage. 

[00:04:33] Ben: So actually this is … it’s not a new problem. The, the- It’s not a new problem … Milburn report is just kind of, “Oh, look at that, someone’s dressed it up slightly differently.” But it is the … I guess the positive is it is drawing attention to it. 

[00:04:43] Amanda: Yeah. I mean, what’s interesting is that we used to be kind of about mid-range amongst European countries in terms of our NEET levels, and now we’re just one off the bottom.

So Romania is the only country that has higher NEET levels than we do, and that’s partly because we’ve got worse, so more of our young people are NEET. But, um, actually the NEET problem has been here for a long time. Other countries have got better, and in the, in the interim review, they make the really sensible, I suppose it’s an obvious point, but it’s a really relevant point, which is that if other countries have got better, then there’s hope for us to improve.

It means it can be done. So what- That’s what we need to focus on now. 

[00:05:20] Ben: So we’re not gonna solve that on this podcast today. But what sort of things are being done? ‘Cause obviously pa- partly, I guess we’re talking about NEETs not in education, employment, or, or training. But obviously you’ve got a whole bunch of young learners that are in education.

[00:05:35] Amanda: Absolutely, yeah. I mean, as Aaron said, there’s lots of high quality training available. Um, for some learners, it really is just a question of them finding some training that’s beneficial, that’s useful to them, and sticking at it. There’s a lot of support in colleges and schools now. We have really expert teams of people who can help people who are struggling with their studies or who are struggling with motivation, struggling with problems outside their studies. Uh, we can help them to deal with all of those barriers so that they can still achieve. The other side of the coin is they have those qualifications, so something like one in six NEETs has a degree, and that’s an interesting thing that, that’s just come out.

Um, you can have a qualification and still find it really hard to get into work. And I think- The way we’ve been talking about this problem over the last few years has probably created lots of misconceptions. So there’s been a really strong narrative nationally that says young people don’t have any skills.

We need to do something to upskill young people. Young people don’t have the right attitude. They don’t want to work. They’re snowflakes. And these, these are myths, and they’re borne out, you know, the fact that that’s a myth is borne out by our experience. Um, it’s also something in the interim review that we’re talking about, uh, the observation is made that they’re viewed as, um, soft, a soft generation, but actually the experience of the team writing the review is the opposite, that actually they’re, they’re people who are, um, who have a desire to work.

84% of NEETs say that they, they want to find employment. But I think what’s really changed is that employers are investing a lot less in training, so we know that the apprenticeship rate has reduced by 40%. There aren’t those apprenticeships out there. You don’t need to have an apprenticeship to take on a young person and train them in your business, but you do have to have a willingness to take on somebody who hasn’t worked before or is just, you know, out of college, out of university.

They might have loads of knowledge. They might have loads of practical skills and competencies. They’re going to need a bit of help with what it means to be at work. 

[00:07:39] Ben: And from a business owner’s point of view that, that’s, t- to me, that makes total sense. Because you then bring someone in who you are going to shape, mold, and, uh, educate, conti- to further their education.

[00:07:52] Amanda: Absolutely.  

[00:07:53] Ben: But they work in your way and in, in your, um, you know, in your system and your, your, how- however they, they fit into that business.

[00:08:01] Amanda: I mean, that’s … It’s great to hear you say that because the employers that we work with say the same thing, um- I, I wouldn’t for one second want to say that employers are not doing that No. Um, but there are lots of employers who are not yet doing that, and obviously we can work with them to help them. But the very best employers that we have say exactly what you’ve just said. They say, “We want somebody that fits our business, and if we take them on a placement while they’re studying, or if we take them with the understanding that we’ll need to, to help them with that transition into work, they will, they’ll grow to be part of our business, to reflect our values, to fit in with the people that are here and the way that we do things.”

That’s when you get an employee who’s really, really valuable. But in order to do that, you have to have that long-term view. If you just want somebody who’s going to do a task for you for a year and you expect them to go, you might not be so willing to invest in, in helping them to fit into your organization and to, to make the most of all the skills and knowledge that they’ve got.

[00:08:57] Ben: So talk us through then, Aaron, how? ‘Cause I, I know you’ve got a … I’ve got experience … of taking on, uh, a West Herts College alumni. So and, and it started with workpl- work placement, and Freddie, who we’ve mentioned loads of times- … who’s in the background, is on the podcast, and actually we’re gonna pop him onto the camera here at the end of this podcast to get his view on it. Um, but talk about how you’re support-supporting those young learners and, and helping them get into business, and how … Is it right to call it a program? Um, and obviously some of it is apprenticeships, some of it is work placements. You’re right. 

[00:09:31] Aaron: Yeah. So, um, there is a wide variety of programs available for young people, and that’s part of their kind of entitlement, their post-16 choice.

They will choose a course that they want to study in an area that they hope to work in one day. Um, for us as a college, it’s about, yes, delivering these qualifications to a high quality so that they understand the skills that are required, they develop those technical skills where appropriate. But really what is perhaps the most important part of their study program is the exposure and the understanding that they get to the world of work.

Um, it’s our responsibility as a training provider to make sure that a young person is not just qualified, but also job ready. So in terms of how that works in practice, what we do is we have a team of people who work closely with Amanda- And their role is to go out to employers and say, “Look, there’s lots of ways in which you can support young people, um, to get exposure to the world of work.”

And that can be done through a number of ways. That could be that you take someone on, on a placement experience where you might have them one day a week or a week in the academic year. Um, the kinda traditional, um, work experience methods that you might expect. What we do, though, is to make sure that it’s really purposeful for the young person and the employer, is we will have that conversation to understand, um, for instance, in Freddie’s example, um, if he’s studying a course like film and TV, these are the skills and competencies he’s developing on his program.

How does that map to what you require, Ben, for someone to come in and do some work experience and be purposeful? Um, so we hope that those experiences are both beneficial for the young person and the employer. But it doesn’t just have to be a young person coming out to an employer to work. It could be that the employer comes in and speaks to a cohort of young people and fills the gaps where perhaps the qualification doesn’t quite tick all the boxes for what’s needed in a specific job. And we’ve got lots of examples where this is happening really, really purposefully, and I think that those experiences for students can be really eye-opening about, this is actually what I need to know to go and get a job. And when we talk about NEETs who are qualified, it’s actually sometimes that lack of understanding what employers are looking for that acts as that barrier.

So if they’ve had an employer come in, it may be one session, it may be a handful, it may be something really bespoke, but deliver something purposeful that aligns to the, the work they want to do, then that can help them on that journey. 

[00:11:49] Ben: So th- my first-hand experience of that… was, uh, when we first engaged with the college, talking about we w- want a young learner, we want someone to come on placement, but we’ve actually got something very specific that we want them to do.

[00:12:02] Aaron: Right. 

[00:12:02] Ben: So, um, I was invited along and actually brought a project for the, for, uh, I think six, six or seven, maybe eight of them who, who showed interest. And it worked two ways, because I said, “This is the project.” “This is how it works,” talked them through it, left them for an hour to have a go at it, and if they’d got any questions, they can ask.

So as an employer, I can see where their levels are, and this was, uh, working with Premiere Pro, which is a video editing, uh, system, for those that don’t know. And I could see where, where they were, but also for the learners, uh, the young learners, they were like … A couple of them were, were honest. They were like, “This is not for me.”

“It’s not, it’s not the kinda thing I, I wanna be doing.” Um- But for Freddie, he was like, “Yeah, I’ll have a go at this.” 

[00:12:45] Aaron: Yeah, but- 

[00:12:46] Ben: You’re getting name-checked more, more than any other episode ever , Freddie. But it’s … You’re gonna be on it. In, in part two of this episode, Freddie will be sat right here where you guys are.

Um, so what are the misconceptions then ar- around placements for, uh, for these young learners? And, and what, what are the barriers as well, I guess? 

[00:13:03] Amanda: Mm. Yeah. I mean, I guess people think about work experience placements, and they have in their mind what somebody who’s maybe 13 or 14 and at school might do.

And, you know, they’re wide-eyed, and they wander around. They follow the person who’s making the tea. And they, they do that for a week, and they don’t add any value. And that’s not to criticize them. They’re 13 or 14. Um, they haven’t been doing the kinds of courses that our students are doing, where they’re, they’re learning really, um, industry-ready skills.

So your 14-year-old takes up a lot of somebody’s time. I think it’s the reverse. I mean, for the first few days it may not be. But for a placement with our learners, if you’ve got somebody who can use the software that you’re talking about or who can do, um, the customer service that’s necessary in your business, or, um, you might have a catering student, they’ve got lots of skills already- Yeah

that are relevant at work. You might have to have somebody to, to show them the ropes, to show them around. We, um, work with employers to ensure that the placement is purposeful, so we know what they’re going to do and what we want them to get out of it. So we do expect employers to, um, to work with us in planning the placement.

But that could be a telephone call. It doesn’t need to be a really onerous thing. 

[00:14:11] Ben: There’s nothing worse for the, for the, the pl- person who’s on the placement or the employer. I’ve, I- I’m speaking to someone who’s, uh, whose son is on a placement at the moment, and, uh, it’s in a similar industry to ours. They’re basically just coiling cables all day long, and it’s and not, they’re not getting in … That is part of the job. 

[00:14:31] Amanda: Mm-hmm.  

[00:14:32] Ben: But they’re not getting into, and, and then they don’t learn. They don’t-The f- the further education… is not there. 

[00:14:38] Amanda: Well, I think the key thing, and we wouldn’t certainly say to a student, “You won’t be doing anything boring on your placement.” So we prepare our- 

[00:14:45] Ben: Hey, ’cause sometimes work’s boring. 

[00:14:46] Amanda: Yes, exactly. 

[00:14:47] Ben: Yeah. It’s not always fun. 

[00:14:48] Amanda: Yeah, I mean, so we prepare our students so they understand that they’re going to be doing a balance of tasks. Um, we’ve got a project, um, where students go to a TV and film stage, uh, and they’re doing work on real productions.

They’ve just had some training, um, which is overseen by Sky, where they learn about what they call setiquette. So you know, how you conduct yourself, how you behave. And some of that is, you know, when you’re asked to do something don’t, don’t make a face. You know, you need to understand- … your, your position in the organization.

And what that does is mean that when they do move into work, they’re not making those mistakes when they’ve got a contract and when it really matters. So placements are really important in that sense. But I guess what I’d say to, to businesses, if they’re thinking, you know, “We’re flat out, we can’t take somebody for a placement,” think about where actually another pair of hands might be useful.

Because our students will be useful as another pair of hands after the first few days. Um, we’ve been working with an engineering company. Uh, they do, um, aeronautical design engineering, and they’ve had two of our students on placements, and they’ve been doing lots of things on CAD, so computer-aided design.

They’re probably not adding value yet, but they’ve had them in the placement. They’ve shown them loads of techniques. Obviously, this is in addition to everything that they’re learning through their level three aeronautical engineering course, where they’re learning loads of things about materials and engineering and maths and things like that.

And as a result of what they’ve seen of them on the placement, they’ve offered them employment, so they’ve both now got employment offers. 

[00:16:17] Ben: Brilliant. 

[00:16:17] Amanda: And it will feed them into, interestingly, into the graduate trainee program that this company normally runs. They’re, because they’re doing such a focused aeronautical engineering course now, they’re, they’re able to skip that.

But they wouldn’t have been able, this company wouldn’t have been able to make the decision- Without speaking to those learners, without having them in the business, that they would be a good bet for employment. And so if you think about it in a different way, rather than offering a placement, what you’re doing is you’re just recruiting in a different format.

[00:16:49] Ben: Yeah. 

[00:16:49] Amanda: And that de-risks recruitment for employers enormously. Because you wouldn’t say, “Well, I’ll take somebody from college,” or even from the street, having gone through a round of interviews and a paper sift and- 

[00:17:02] Ben: A gazillion,  

[00:17:04] Amanda: Yeah, exactly … 

[00:17:05] Ben: applicants. 

[00:17:05] Amanda: We’ve all done that. We’ve all employed people on, and you know how tenuous it is. You know, you know virtually nothing about them based on the selection process that you go through. Uh, we’ve all employed people on that basis and wish we knew more about them. I mean, happily at West Herts, I think we’ve got some wonderful staff. So, but, but we’ve all done that.

Every employer will recognize that concern about employing somebody who is essentially completely unknown to you. If you’ve had somebody on placement, you’ve got no obligation to take them. A bit like you said, in that project, some of those learners said, “This isn’t for me.” And that’s just as useful for them to learn that.

[00:17:41] Ben: And I’d rather find that out- 

[00:17:43] Amanda: Mm … 

[00:17:43] Ben: in a one-hour sort of project test, effectively, isn’t it? 

[00:17:48] Amanda: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:17:49] Ben: Um, it’s like a try before you buy. I’d rather find that out, not just for, for me, but for them as well. 

[00:17:54] Amanda: Yeah. 

[00:17:54] Ben: Yeah ‘Cause if they come in and it’s like they don’t, they’re not gonna enjoy that kind of work- 

[00:17:58] Aaron: Mm.

[00:17:59] Amanda: Mm-hmm … 

[00:17:59] Ben: Then it’s miserable for everybody. 

[00:18:01] Amanda: Yeah. And so if our learners do several of those activities, hopefully they’ll find one that does fit for them. You know, for most courses that somebody’s on, there will be multiple occupational pathways that they could go into. So part of our work is helping them to explore those so they make the right decision, uh, when they actually do go for employment. And 

[00:18:18] Aaron: One of the other, I guess, unintended consequences of this work as well, Ben, is that we’ve seen how some employers will come to us and say, “It’s fantastic, you know. You’ve got lots of young people who are really keen and eager.

However, there is a skills gap for a specific job in my business or my industry, that if they are to leave college as they currently are, they’re not gonna be employable.” Um, and so that helps us to understand where those gaps are so that we’re not preparing young people to then add to that NEET number and not be able to access jobs. We can then tailor qualifications, we can swap modules out where they’re more appropriate, or even add small qualifications. We’ve seen examples of that with, um, young people who want to be lifeguards working at leisure centers. Um, and they’ll be studying a level three sport qualification with us, and they’ll be 100% attendance and on time, really strong grade profile.

But when it comes to work, if they don’t have their lifeguard qualification, health and safety, working with young people, understanding of those things that aren’t necessarily built into the qualification, then they’re not employable. And so us working with that employer- We were able to then pivot, change the qualification, add a few extras in there to make sure that those young people are ready from day one.

Um, so it’s, it is very much working both ways. It’s a two-way street.

[00:19:38] Ben: I think that’s m- massively important, particularly f- for the, for the bigger businesses out there. 

[00:19:42] Aaron: Mm-hmm. 

[00:19:43] Ben: Because essentially you’re learning as well, aren’t you? No, precisely. It’s filling, filling that gap. There’s nothing worse.

And that, I think that did used to be quite a big thing- Um, maybe five, 10 years ago where it’s like, actually these young learners are coming out, but they’re not ready to work. What I get from you guys and other colleges are th- there’s a b- there is a massive effort. As you call it, work ready.

[00:20:05] Amanda: Mm-hmm. Mm. Yeah, I mean, I think the way that we approach our qualifications is very different these days. Obviously, a learner is funded to do a particular course, and they’ll have a piece of paper at the end of that. Um, and that’s important for them, but we know that they need a range of other things.

So we routinely consult with employers on what those other things are, and almost all of our learners will do something in addition to their main qualification. Most of them will do multiple things in addition to their main qualification. That might be learning about particular equipment that’s important in the industry they want to go into but wasn’t in the qualification when it was written a few years ago.

Um, and … Or it might be qualifications that are licensed to practice qualifications. It might be insight into things that actually, they don’t fit within that, um, sort of academic world. So you’re a science student, for example. You don’t know about good manufacturing practices in the pharmaceutical industry, but you need to if you want to go from that course into the pharmaceutical industry. So we work with an employer who does some workshops on that to help our learners to understand that, and it just means they’re more credible when they’re going for work. 

[00:21:08] Ben: And you’re, you’re working with some massive companies as well, aren’t you? Small and large. 

[00:21:12] Amanda:  We are, yeah. I mean, uh, I think 95% of the companies in our regions are small and medium. So we, we work with a large number of small companies, and in a way, the benefit is bigger for the small companies. If you’re a large company and you have a training arm and you have a big HR department, and you probably have some influence in the way that national qualifications are written, then probably things are set up to reflect your needs- 

[00:21:34] Ben: Yeah.

[00:21:35] Amanda: -to a greater extent already. If you’re a small company, and maybe what you do is quite niche, then you certainly can’t afford to make a mistake in employing somebody who costs you a lot of money, who you can’t keep. You’ve got all of that inconsistency. You’ve got all of the disruption. Then working with us in all the ways we’ve just outlined could give you some real benefits at very, very low effort. 

[00:21:57] Ben: Yeah. 

[00:21:57] Amanda: Probably no cost at all. 

[00:21:59] Ben: So talk me through. So we, we talked about placements. Yes. Apprenticeships as well? 

[00:22:03] Amanda: Mm-hmm. 

[00:22:03] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. So apprenticeships are available, um, for employers of any size. Um, and one thing I would say about apprenticeships is that specifically when you’re thinking about hiring young people, there’s actually, um, incentives, uh, available to employers that may help with the cost of employment.

It might help with training, or it might just be, uh, an, a cash incentive that can help you with other costs related to your business. Um, so I’ll talk you through those, and then we can talk a little bit more about what our offer is. Um, the incentives that are currently available, there’s been a longstanding- A 1,000 pound incentive for hiring a young person into apprenticeship.

Um, that’s for employers of any shape, size, uh, and industry. Um, if they’re age 16 to 18 or, uh, 18 to 24, if they have an education and healthcare plan, then you can get that 1,000 pound incentive to help with the startup of employing a young person. Um, but new this year, there’s two new incentives.

One, as Amanda mentioned, uh, particular interest for our region, for SMEs, there’s an additional 2,000 pound incentive if they hire a young person aged, uh, 16 to 18, um, onto an apprenticeship program. Um, and that can be combined with the longstanding 1,000, so there’s 3,000 pounds available there to SMEs if they hire a young person into an apprenticeship.

But also to tackle the NEET issue that we’re seeing, um, there is a youth, uh, job grant which is, uh, available, I believe it’s this month, June 26, um, which is for any young person, uh, from the age of 18 to 24 who’s been out of work, uh, and on Universal Credit for six months or more. If an employer hires a person that meets that criteria, 3,000 pound incentive just for hiring them and, and them starting with the business.

So there is incentive there um, to help with the costs of hiring. Um, but in terms of the actual training programs, apprenticeships can be a really effective, uh, way of bringing someone into your business, um, them upskilling, getting a qualification, doing one day a week with a college or a training provider, um, and then having that person four days a week in the job effectively.

Um, but the thing to know about apprenticeships for those who have maybe- kind of heard about them, aware of what they are, but never really thought it’s right for my business, is that it, it is a proper job- 

[00:24:23] Ben: Yeah … 

[00:24:23] Aaron: with training, but that person is expected to be working in a job role that your business needs and will need into the future as well.

[00:24:31] Ben: So if I’m a business owner listening or watching the podcast- and I’m thinking, “This sounds great, but it sounds like a lot of paperwork- 

[00:24:39] Aaron: Mm … 

[00:24:39] Ben: and then I’ve no idea how an apprenticeship should run or how it’s done,” what’s your answer? 

[00:24:45] Amanda: I mean, look, we can help with all of that, and I mean, the easiest thing would be to have a conversation with us, and somebody can talk you through it. But I think it’s important to say that apprenticeships are not the only option, and actually even in construction where apprenticeships are a really traditional route into that work, we have many, many more learners who finish full-time courses with us and go into work than we do apprentices.

So you don’t have to go for an apprenticeship if it isn’t the thing that will work for your business. You can approach us, and we can talk about a whole range of flexible things.  You can just let us know about your vacancies, and that might be a good first step. Tell us that you’ve got some vacancies.

We’ve got people who will contact you. If the vacancy is something that would be appropriate for our learners, they’ll help select learners. They’ll help them to apply. We, for some employers, even host initial rounds of interviews where you can come and meet the learners. So there’s a range of things that we can do, and it might be that over time those businesses are interested in apprenticeships, but it doesn’t matter if they’re not. There are lots of things that we can do to help you find the right person right now. 

[00:25:48] Ben: Brilliant. 

[00:25:49] Amanda: Mm. 

[00:25:50] Ben: Well, I’ve got a question here that says, “Can you gi- share some real examples of how it’s happened in business?” We’re gonna give the viewers the listeners a real example with Freddie in a minute, but I’m just wondering are, are there any particular industries where you find apprenticeships work really well or placements work really well?

[00:26:08] Aaron: One thing I’ll say that I, one industry in particular I think we, we have, do some really good work with is, um, the hairdressing and barbering industry, um, because that is a, an industry where styles and techniques are constantly evolving. And so young people are learning the traditional skills and qualifications, and what we see is that we have lots of, um, on our high streets, in our towns and villages locally, lots of employers who are looking at hiring young people, um, to keep that, you know, um, talent pipeline coming through, making sure that people are employed.

And them coming into the college and delivering master classes where they’re effectively demonstrating a new technique to young people that would, they would otherwise not see, that’s a really effective way of then seeing who’s competent, who’s grasping this really quickly. Um, and we’ve seen that happen with lots of employers, um, but there are some, you know, really local ones in Berkhampsted, in, in, in Tring, and in the surrounding villages that are, are working with our students to help upskill them.

Um, th- there’s, uh, lots of large businesses. You know, we work with the NHS, we work with, as Amanda’s mentioned, some really, um, big construction engineering firms. But I think the important thing to think about is that whether you’re a, you know, a, a creative agency, whether you’re a hairdresser, whether you’re, um, starting up a, a business of your own, whatever that might be, hospitality, we are delivering training to young people in all of these industries.

So you might look at our website and go, “I can’t quite see the qualification that maps to what I’m thinking about.” I would say don’t let that be a barrier. Don’t let that be something that stops you from having that conversation. Because as Amanda’s mentioned, quite often what comes out in that conversation is that if we’re missing something, we can respond to the employer need, but likewise it might be that it’s hard for the employer without the skills and understanding of what the qualification la- like framework looks like to know what’s right for them, and that’s where we can support as well.

[00:28:03] Amanda: And I do think that’s a really good point. So when employers come to speak to us, they have a sense of what they think might be included in a qualification, and that’s often based on what, what was in the qualification when they took it or when their children took that qualification. Um, we update our curriculum all the time.

When we sit down with those employers and we say, “Look, look at the things that they cover, look at the things in the specification,” they tend to be really, really surprised They’re really impressed. Look at all the things that they’re covering, and also look at how up to date is what they’re covering.

Obviously, we can add things if there’s skills that they need that are not up to date. But I guess one of the, um, one of the benefits of employing a young person who’s recently trained is that they probably have covered more up-to-date things than somebody who might look lower risk because they’re older and they’ve been working for longer.

But if you take a chance on a young person, they’ll have learnt about AI, they’ll have learnt about, I don’t know, cybersecurity.  Skills that… Social media marketing. Skills that somebody may not have learnt 10 years ago. Uh, so there are benefits to taking on somebody who doesn’t have that work experience but has an up-to-date qualification.

[00:29:09] Ben: I’m really pleased you touched on that because I, I thought about that as we were chatting earlier on, is it’s not just what you can teach the, the n- that new person in your business, but what they can teach you. I, I- Absolutely … I know a couple of businesses that actually get their younger team members to fe- to sort of interview and do appraisals with their management.

[00:29:30] Aaron: Mm. 

[00:29:30] Ben: Because… And then talk about, talk about the, the sort of… They’ve g- they’ve got the blind spots of things like AI and of things like social media, exactly that kind of thing. Um, one last question from me, or maybe two. Um, is there a certain time of year that works really well for, for apprenticeships?

So would… When you get into that new, new sort of, uh, education cycle in September, or is it any time of the year? 

[00:29:52] Amanda: For apprenticeships, I mean, we can start whenever. 

[00:29:54] Ben: Mm. 

[00:29:55] Amanda: For everything else, and I just wanna emphasize, you know, we’ve got 8,000 young people across the group. 

[00:30:00] Ben: Yeah. 

[00:30:00] Amanda: A, a small, very small proportion of them are doing apprenticeships, so we also have leavers who typically leave around this time of year in the next month or two. That’s on an annual cycle. If you work with us during the year, then when they leave at the end of the year looking for employment, you can be the, the b- business to, to hoover them up. Um- 

[00:30:20] Ben: So placements any time of the year? 

[00:30:22] Amanda: Yeah, placements any time of the year. And we can work around when is good for businesses. We’re really flexible in doing that, uh, because we see it’s such an important thing for learners to go out to businesses. Um- 

[00:30:33] Aaron: And just to add to that, sorry, is just that FE colleges don’t stop in the same way over the summer as, as people might expect them to. The business keeps operating.

The students are not necessarily there studying, but we’ve had plenty of placements that take place over the summer as well- Okay … uh, or e- even out of term time. So I wouldn’t want people to think that that would be a barrier. If you have a project that you’re thinking, “I’ve got this summer activity happening,” then still talk to us because we’ll have young people that are looking for work across the summer as well.

[00:31:01] Ben: Brilliant. Uh, this has been fascinating. We’ve covered a lot of ground. Is there anything that we’ve missed, is probably my last question. 

[00:31:07] Aaron: I don’t think so. 

[00:31:08] Amanda: No. Feels like we’ve covered a lot. 

[00:31:09] Aaron: Yeah. Yeah. 

[00:31:10] Ben: And I think the action for business owners out there is just start the conversation with you.

[00:31:15] Amanda: Mm-hmm. Absolutely. You can go onto our website, you can get in touch with us very easily, and then someone will have a conversation about what meets your needs. 

[00:31:22] Ben: Brilliant. And we will of course put all those details in the show notes. Well, thank you both very much for coming. What we’re gonna do now is actually, and we’ll kick you off the sofa if that’s all right. 

[00:31:34] Amanda: Of course. 

[00:31:40] Ben: We’ll get Freddie in, and why don’t you interview me and Freddie? Perfect. Right, part two of the episode then, and actually we’re gonna hand over to you then, Amanda. It’s, uh, it’s yours. The Berko and Beyond Podcast is yours. Do with it what you will. 

[00:31:46] Amanda: Excellent. The tables have turned.

So we’ve got Freddie here, um, and Freddie was a West Herts College student, and he’s kindly agreed that we can fire some questions at him. So Freddie, can you tell me how you came to work here at Chuff Productions? 

[00:31:59] Freddie: Uh, so Ben came into the college. He was looking for someone to do a g- do a job, I guess. He came in, he brought in a project for us to do, which was something that we usually do.

It was some training videos. And he brought in the project, and basically just gave it to seven or eight people and said, “Here it is. Here’s how you do it. Have a go at it.” Um, and we did, and as Ben said earlier, uh, a couple people were like, “This isn’t for me.” Um, I- Didn’t. I s- I, I stayed, and I, I think really what got me the job, when Ben came around and looked at me just before we started, I was on the CHUFF website.

I was having a look at the website. I think that’s really what got me the job. But, uh, yeah, he, he came in. I did, did a couple things, and then a couple weeks later, I… One of the teachers or s- someone came in and said, “Uh, you got- you’ve been contacted for this job. Do you wanna take it?” And I said, “Yeah.” 

[00:32:54] Amanda: And so initially it was a placement, an unpaid placement- 

[00:32:56] Freddie: Yeah, 

[00:32:56] Amanda: Is that right? So how long did you do that for, Freddie? 

[00:32:59] Freddie: That was just under a year, I think. She came in on my last year, a couple months before I left.  So it was five or six months, I think. 

[00:33:10] Amanda: So you were still studying for…for a big chunk of that. Brilliant. And then you were lucky to, to get a job.

[00:33:14] Freddie: Yeah. Kept going here. I really enjoy it. It’s good. 

[00:33:17] Amanda: And so Ben, perhaps you could say, how have you found that experience of, of taking on somebody through that route? 

[00:33:23] Ben: Uh, it’s brilliant. As, as I talked about during the part one of the podcast, is to have someone that you can get basically to work your way, which is quite a big thing in our industry.

So video production is… it relies on knowing where things are, and where files are kept, and that they’re backed up, and as we always say, if it’s not in three places, it doesn’t exist. And I think s- that was probably, we’ll check in with Fred, probably what the- one of the biggest learners for you, wasn’t it?

To start with, was media management and wh- where to keep things. 

[00:33:55] Freddie: Yeah, when I, when I started, uh, my projects at college weren’t the best organized, I’ll be honest. I- they were either just kept on the SD cards or on my computer at home. Um, and then coming here now, whenever I do something for myself, I always just use the folder structure we have here now.

[00:34:11] Ben: Yeah, when you ca- ’cause I remember when you were doing your final presentation, and, uh, you were doing that project. So it was like, “Fred, you come in, you use whatever you want, whatever tools and stuff you need.” But it was great to look over his shoulder and, uh, see that he was us- already using the, the CHUFFed folder structure. So- 

[00:34:27] Freddie: And it won me best documentary, so I’ll take it. 

[00:34:29] Amanda: And that’s a, a really interesting example, isn’t it? Because when we talk about whether young people are ready for work or not, actually, it could be something quite small like that, that could be fixed very quickly. You know, presumably was quite a quick thing to learn that you needed to use a particular file s- file structure and ensure that there were multiple copies of something. 

[00:34:47] Freddie: Yeah. 

[00:34:47] Amanda: Um, so even if young people aren’t ready immediately, the gap might not be very big to close, and you could do that through your placement. 

[00:34:54] Freddie: Yeah. Another thing that was really helpful was learning a lot of technical terms as well ’cause at college you learn so much, and you learn how to use all these different things. I learned how to use Premiere Pro. I’ve always done, like, editing stuff since I was very young, but I, I never used Premiere, so I learnt all that through college. But then learning the nitty-gritty of this is what you call this, and this is what this is called, and things like that, has really helped knowing what’s going on.

[00:35:18] Amanda: Absolutely, yeah. Do you think you would’ve struggled to find somebody if you hadn’t recruited Freddie in the way that you did? 

[00:35:25] Ben: For that particular job, yes, because the, it was a real… So our video production business is, uh, based around testimonial videos and, and case study videos. Um, we do brand story videos as well, but w- we, we do all sorts of stuff.

Um, but that, that’s our core, core business. And we also have a second side of the business, which is training videos, which when Freddie first joined, they were real life, if you like. They’ve actually now moved onto, uh, an AI system Of which we’ve had to learn together so that’s been really interesting.

So that’s upskilling both of us, uh, and Emma, who works with us as well. But I think that if I wasn’t able to go into the college and give eight students, I think it was, “Here’s your project. Have a go at it,” I’d still have had to have done that individually with applicants if I’d have advertised that job which would have been way more time-consuming. Um, so- Totally … actually, one of the advantages was just to go and do it all at once. 

[00:36:27] Freddie: Yeah, I was about to say, just having everyone in that room, and like you said about people can realize it’s not for them, it’s great just having all the people getting it all done.

Rather than taking eight hours to do it, it’s taken you one hour to do it. And it’s also when you’re there looking at people doing it, you can much easier tell, yes, this is… You know, they’re doing well with it, or they’re struggling, or they’re not, they’re not enjoying doing this, rather than what, you know, by the eighth interview, you’re not gonna be paying as much attention to everyone.

[00:36:57] Ben: And also, the big thing that I’m looking for is taking direction as well. From a, you know, from a, a, a video or TV side of thing, it would be giving them dir- giving direction and do it, do it kind of this way. But from a, a practical point of view of I see how you’ve done that, but next time do it this way or try it this way.

And often I’ll say to Fred, “You do it your way, then do it my way, and then what do you think?” And sometimes his way will be better. Sometimes we’ll merge the two, whatever it is. So there’s… I think the big thing, um, you, you can talk more of it, of it than me, is your continued learning as well. So we give Fred plenty of room to play around on different, uh, bits of software and do, you know, smaller little…

Passion projects is probably the wrong word, but- 

[00:37:42] Freddie: No, yeah. I’ve learnt a lot of new things working here, and we do, we have different, so many different projects coming through the door that one week I could be doing a testimonial video where it’s very much just take this footage, take that footage, get that all ready, and put them all in one sequence.

And then a couple weeks ago we had a project where a lot of it was, like, screen recordings and animations, and I got to do a lot of creative stuff. And the same with this podcast. Like, I, I’ve made all the thumbnails. I, I do all the shorts and everything for it, and I really enjoyed the whole thing of I had, like, a week or two to just set up all this branding type stuff for the podcast, um, and get it all ready, and it was great.

I just got to play around, just have fun basically for a week. Um, and it was good fun, and it’s, it seemed to have worked out. We, we just posted some YouTube shorts, and within couple hours one of them got 500 views, and it, it’s ’cause I had time to look at it. And Ben’s given time to each thing very, very well.

He’s very good at planning out- You know, when the, where to prioritize things. So I’ve had time without pushing other things off to have a go at getting all these shorts and stuff out. Yeah. 

[00:38:53] Amanda: It’s such a nice story. I think when we think about our careers, probably all of us can think of someone who took a chance on us and gave us, you know, opened a door at some point. And I suppose this is a lovely example of that happening. But I would just say to, to employers, you know, if you can think that that happened to you, try and do the same for somebody else, ’cause it’s clearly working really well here, isn’t it? 

[00:39:13] Freddie: Yeah. I, I mean, I was … Before this, when I was just got into college, I was searching for, like, weekend jobs and stuff.

Mm. It took me a year and a half to get a job in a retail shop. I was there for three months, and it was not very fun. I didn’t enjoy it very much. And after the three months, I could either kept going or leave, and I just decided to leave ’cause I was not enjoying it at all. And then a couple months later, I got this job.

So it all worked out for the better. But, um, but I’ve been happy. I’ve been there three and a half years now, so. 

[00:39:41] Ben: Right, Mandy, I’m taking this podcast back. Excellent. I’ll take it away. It’s mine. All right. Thank you very much, Freddie. No problem. I enjoyed it. And Mandy. Yeah, thanks for coming. 

[00:39:48] Amanda: Thank you very much for having me here.

Good to see you again, Freddie. 

[00:39:51] Ben: Thanks for watching this week’s episode of Burco and Beyond. If you’d like to be a guest on the show, then drop us an email, podcast@burcoandbeyond.com. And don’t forget to like and subscribe wherever you watch or listen to your podcasts. We’ll see you next week.